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	<title>Comments on: What is risk?</title>
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	<link>http://7million7years.com/2008/09/16/what-is-risk/</link>
	<description>How to make 7 million in 7 years ...</description>
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		<title>By: AJC</title>
		<link>http://7million7years.com/2008/09/16/what-is-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-1750</link>
		<dc:creator>AJC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 18:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://7million7years.wordpress.com/?p=649#comment-1750</guid>
		<description>@ Diane - the Date is when Life After Work begins (and, you had better have a sh*tload of passive investments throwing off enough cash to keep you living in the style to which you will no doubt become accustomed).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Diane &#8211; the Date is when Life After Work begins (and, you had better have a sh*tload of passive investments throwing off enough cash to keep you living in the style to which you will no doubt become accustomed).</p>
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		<title>By: Diane</title>
		<link>http://7million7years.com/2008/09/16/what-is-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-1749</link>
		<dc:creator>Diane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 17:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://7million7years.wordpress.com/?p=649#comment-1749</guid>
		<description>@AJC - Is that what the date is supposed to be, the maximum amount of time to get there?  That&#039;s a clearer way of stating it, I think, that what was said before, because I have always been a bit foggy about the date - 5, 10, 20 - such even (in 5s) numbers...

@ Scott, thanks for the encouragement and reminder about the get-right-back-up-and-get-back-in-the-fight.  Definitely so true.  It&#039;s like the driver in one of those comedy racing-cars-across-the-USA movies back in the 70s.  The Italian driver tore off his rearview mirrors and state, &quot;What&#039;s behind me does not matter!&quot;  (and that includes that 0% (or less!) ROI.  It just gives us another baseline to keep pushing off from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@AJC &#8211; Is that what the date is supposed to be, the maximum amount of time to get there?  That&#8217;s a clearer way of stating it, I think, that what was said before, because I have always been a bit foggy about the date &#8211; 5, 10, 20 &#8211; such even (in 5s) numbers&#8230;</p>
<p>@ Scott, thanks for the encouragement and reminder about the get-right-back-up-and-get-back-in-the-fight.  Definitely so true.  It&#8217;s like the driver in one of those comedy racing-cars-across-the-USA movies back in the 70s.  The Italian driver tore off his rearview mirrors and state, &#8220;What&#8217;s behind me does not matter!&#8221;  (and that includes that 0% (or less!) ROI.  It just gives us another baseline to keep pushing off from.</p>
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		<title>By: AJC</title>
		<link>http://7million7years.com/2008/09/16/what-is-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-1748</link>
		<dc:creator>AJC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://7million7years.wordpress.com/?p=649#comment-1748</guid>
		<description>@ ShaferFinancial - Risk is in the eye of the beholder :) But, if a bank is willing to put up 80% or more of the purchase price of a property, I would have to agree, that is low risk!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ ShaferFinancial &#8211; Risk is in the eye of the beholder <img src='http://7million7years.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  But, if a bank is willing to put up 80% or more of the purchase price of a property, I would have to agree, that is low risk!</p>
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		<title>By: shaferfinancial</title>
		<link>http://7million7years.com/2008/09/16/what-is-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-1739</link>
		<dc:creator>shaferfinancial</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 03:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://7million7years.wordpress.com/?p=649#comment-1739</guid>
		<description>Yes AJC you are correct; starting a buisness is a great way to produce wealth and also risky.  That&#039;s why I suggest doing both; becoming an active investor and starting a business on the side at first.  Matters little what investment class as long as you become an expert at it.  Real estate just allows you to reduce risk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes AJC you are correct; starting a buisness is a great way to produce wealth and also risky.  That&#8217;s why I suggest doing both; becoming an active investor and starting a business on the side at first.  Matters little what investment class as long as you become an expert at it.  Real estate just allows you to reduce risk.</p>
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		<title>By: AJC</title>
		<link>http://7million7years.com/2008/09/16/what-is-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-1747</link>
		<dc:creator>AJC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 03:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://7million7years.wordpress.com/?p=649#comment-1747</guid>
		<description>@ Jeff - I also said that you were &#039;correct&#039; :) And, we are indeed talking about two different things ... and, it was your original comment that inspired this post, so thanks!

@ Scott - Well said; of course, there is a third choice: allow yourself to fall short of your goal because of fear ... because of fear, lots of &#039;Jason Bournes&#039; choose Door # 3: getting shot even when the &#039;jump&#039; is well within their abilities.

@ Ethel - just rework until you have a Number that is your minimum acceptable and a Date that is maximum acceptable. Then choose the lowest risk investment (that is within your &#039;comfort zone&#039;) that gets you there ... without both Date AND Time, most will say that you have no goal, just a vague direction. If having no goal is acceptable, then any road will get you there, so choose the easiest one!

@ Josh - Bankruptcy is the financial equivalent of Jason Bourne not quite making the jump, hanging by his fingernails and eventually falling ... of course, bankruptcy conveniently puts a stuntman&#039;s net at the bottom ;) And, yes, you can start a business and get super high returns without risking bankruptcy in the process ... it&#039;s the 170% you should be concerned about, though, not the 0% that you are worried about.

@ Shafer - Actually, starting a small business outshines RE ... but, the risk of failure is higher; there are plenty of investments other than RE that have made people rich reasonably safely (just ask Warren Buffett), but your point about RE is taken :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Jeff &#8211; I also said that you were &#8216;correct&#8217; <img src='http://7million7years.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  And, we are indeed talking about two different things &#8230; and, it was your original comment that inspired this post, so thanks!</p>
<p>@ Scott &#8211; Well said; of course, there is a third choice: allow yourself to fall short of your goal because of fear &#8230; because of fear, lots of &#8216;Jason Bournes&#8217; choose Door # 3: getting shot even when the &#8216;jump&#8217; is well within their abilities.</p>
<p>@ Ethel &#8211; just rework until you have a Number that is your minimum acceptable and a Date that is maximum acceptable. Then choose the lowest risk investment (that is within your &#8216;comfort zone&#8217;) that gets you there &#8230; without both Date AND Time, most will say that you have no goal, just a vague direction. If having no goal is acceptable, then any road will get you there, so choose the easiest one!</p>
<p>@ Josh &#8211; Bankruptcy is the financial equivalent of Jason Bourne not quite making the jump, hanging by his fingernails and eventually falling &#8230; of course, bankruptcy conveniently puts a stuntman&#8217;s net at the bottom <img src='http://7million7years.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  And, yes, you can start a business and get super high returns without risking bankruptcy in the process &#8230; it&#8217;s the 170% you should be concerned about, though, not the 0% that you are worried about.</p>
<p>@ Shafer &#8211; Actually, starting a small business outshines RE &#8230; but, the risk of failure is higher; there are plenty of investments other than RE that have made people rich reasonably safely (just ask Warren Buffett), but your point about RE is taken <img src='http://7million7years.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: shaferfinancial</title>
		<link>http://7million7years.com/2008/09/16/what-is-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-1746</link>
		<dc:creator>shaferfinancial</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://7million7years.wordpress.com/?p=649#comment-1746</guid>
		<description>The problem with getting to the number is indeed risk as AJC has pointed out.  But what is risk? Defined by mathmaticians it is variability.  With a CD you have a fixed rate of return so little risk/variability UNTIL your CD contract is finished and you have to sign up for another one.  You might find yourself in a market with a significantly lower set of CD rates at this time and that indeed is risk/variability.  The mutual fund sales people have pointed out that the longer time horizons decrease risk as returns &quot;return to the mean&quot; (sorry another math concept!) which means an increase liklihood to get the historical average return for that asset class. So the longer your time horizon the lower your risk/variability!

This is where real estate shines!  Because it is not liquid (meaning it is harder to sell) and there are significant transaction costs it forces folks to stay for longer periods of time, therefore reducing risk!  The key of course is to set up real estate with cash flow (and have reserves) so there is not a time you are forced to sell.
By doing this you minimize the risk of leverage.

So by owning investment real estate for relatively long period of times you reduce the risk/variability of capital appreciation, and can use leverage to triple or more the appreciation, while having an increasing stream of cash flow.

The alternative is to take on more risk/variability of the more liquid investments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with getting to the number is indeed risk as AJC has pointed out.  But what is risk? Defined by mathmaticians it is variability.  With a CD you have a fixed rate of return so little risk/variability UNTIL your CD contract is finished and you have to sign up for another one.  You might find yourself in a market with a significantly lower set of CD rates at this time and that indeed is risk/variability.  The mutual fund sales people have pointed out that the longer time horizons decrease risk as returns &#8220;return to the mean&#8221; (sorry another math concept!) which means an increase liklihood to get the historical average return for that asset class. So the longer your time horizon the lower your risk/variability!</p>
<p>This is where real estate shines!  Because it is not liquid (meaning it is harder to sell) and there are significant transaction costs it forces folks to stay for longer periods of time, therefore reducing risk!  The key of course is to set up real estate with cash flow (and have reserves) so there is not a time you are forced to sell.<br />
By doing this you minimize the risk of leverage.</p>
<p>So by owning investment real estate for relatively long period of times you reduce the risk/variability of capital appreciation, and can use leverage to triple or more the appreciation, while having an increasing stream of cash flow.</p>
<p>The alternative is to take on more risk/variability of the more liquid investments.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://7million7years.com/2008/09/16/what-is-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-1745</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://7million7years.wordpress.com/?p=649#comment-1745</guid>
		<description>It seems to me everyone has their own risk tolerance. Using RE for example, as one increased the percentage of leverage in a property from 20% to 30% to 40% etc...the risk may become to great at say 60%, then 60% is your risk tolerance (at this point in time).
I also believe risk tolerance is directly proportional to the effort needed to recover from a complete loss in a leveraged position (meaning you actually end up in debt if the investment fails). At this point in time, claiming bankruptcy from a failed investment is beyond where my pain/risk tolerance level is at.
Do you think I can still achieve 170% return with this risk tolerance Adrian?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me everyone has their own risk tolerance. Using RE for example, as one increased the percentage of leverage in a property from 20% to 30% to 40% etc&#8230;the risk may become to great at say 60%, then 60% is your risk tolerance (at this point in time).<br />
I also believe risk tolerance is directly proportional to the effort needed to recover from a complete loss in a leveraged position (meaning you actually end up in debt if the investment fails). At this point in time, claiming bankruptcy from a failed investment is beyond where my pain/risk tolerance level is at.<br />
Do you think I can still achieve 170% return with this risk tolerance Adrian?</p>
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		<title>By: Ethel</title>
		<link>http://7million7years.com/2008/09/16/what-is-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-1744</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://7million7years.wordpress.com/?p=649#comment-1744</guid>
		<description>I think this is part of the challenge for me . . . I have a clearer notion of &quot;acceptable risk&quot; than of &quot;number&quot; or &quot;date&quot;.

So maybe I need a different approach:  Instead of defining number and date and determining risk, maybe I should be defining risk and number and determining date from that.  In my situation, the date isn&#039;t key; I&#039;d rather be reasonably sure of getting there and risk getting there ten years late, than risk everything and not get there at all.

Maybe it&#039;s not, &quot;Pick number and date, then determine risk&quot;, but &quot;Define the two most important:  Number, date, or risk.  Then guess what the third variable will be, given the other two, to see if it is acceptable.  If not, you need a smaller number, later date, and/or higher risk.&quot;

Of course, I&#039;m not the millionaire here . . . these are just my thoughts looking on from the goal setting stage.  I like to think &quot;out loud&quot; :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is part of the challenge for me . . . I have a clearer notion of &#8220;acceptable risk&#8221; than of &#8220;number&#8221; or &#8220;date&#8221;.</p>
<p>So maybe I need a different approach:  Instead of defining number and date and determining risk, maybe I should be defining risk and number and determining date from that.  In my situation, the date isn&#8217;t key; I&#8217;d rather be reasonably sure of getting there and risk getting there ten years late, than risk everything and not get there at all.</p>
<p>Maybe it&#8217;s not, &#8220;Pick number and date, then determine risk&#8221;, but &#8220;Define the two most important:  Number, date, or risk.  Then guess what the third variable will be, given the other two, to see if it is acceptable.  If not, you need a smaller number, later date, and/or higher risk.&#8221;</p>
<p>Of course, I&#8217;m not the millionaire here . . . these are just my thoughts looking on from the goal setting stage.  I like to think &#8220;out loud&#8221; <img src='http://7million7years.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://7million7years.com/2008/09/16/what-is-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-1743</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://7million7years.wordpress.com/?p=649#comment-1743</guid>
		<description>If we are talking about reaching our Number by our Date, we can only choose the investments(and their inherent risks) that can get us there. Plan and simple. Nothing less will work unless we open ourselves to settling for less(which will make getting less/later MUCH more likely).

So if you have a BIG number at a SOON date, you are probably going to have to leverage and take the relative risk, but reap the reward in the end. If you are even smarter, you&#039;ll continue to find ways to cut the &#039;risk&#039; on the relative &#039;risky&#039; investments even further and if you fall down, you still get back up and do it again until you get there! Good post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we are talking about reaching our Number by our Date, we can only choose the investments(and their inherent risks) that can get us there. Plan and simple. Nothing less will work unless we open ourselves to settling for less(which will make getting less/later MUCH more likely).</p>
<p>So if you have a BIG number at a SOON date, you are probably going to have to leverage and take the relative risk, but reap the reward in the end. If you are even smarter, you&#8217;ll continue to find ways to cut the &#8216;risk&#8217; on the relative &#8216;risky&#8217; investments even further and if you fall down, you still get back up and do it again until you get there! Good post.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://7million7years.com/2008/09/16/what-is-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-1742</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://7million7years.wordpress.com/?p=649#comment-1742</guid>
		<description>I wouldn&#039;t go so far as to call me incorrect...we are just talking about two different things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn&#8217;t go so far as to call me incorrect&#8230;we are just talking about two different things.</p>
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